Wednesday, June 30, 2010


Remember how many times I've mentioned the LIDT?

A fair number, actually.

It's not been an easy sell to North American fans, because we want to get something for membership. Last years' membership cost 10€, and what did I get out of it?

Access to some restricted parts of the forums. Preview information about Dungeon Twister: Prison.

For me, that was enough. There were a few other benefits, as well. But - again - not something that has been an easy sell to the North American audience.

For 2010, there is a new benefit available. For an additional 5€ (plus shipping), members can obtain an exclusive miniature of the Disciple. That's not right: Members get two figures: One in Yellow, the other in Blue. This mini is not available anywhere else, and may never be available elsewhere. The cost of shipping, BTW, is something we're working on minimizing. "We" meaning "all of us involved with the LIDT." The North American team - Geoff Heintzelman, Samuel Miuccio, and myself - will likely each receive a number of figures that we can ship out to North American members, thereby reducing shipping cost dramatically.

In a marginally related note: People are constantly asking me when Dungeon Twister will be available on the XBox. The answer is, "When Microsoft lets it through." The finished program has reportedly been handed off to their approvals team. I'm not involved in this one at all, however, so this is second-hand information.

Oh - there are rumors in the LIDT forums about the future of DT.


  1. What are these rumors in the forums?

    When I was at Origins this year I asked folks at the Asmodee booth about any of the other expansions coming to the United States and they made it seem like they might never show up (unless someone imports the French versions and then gets the translations online). Have you heard anything about that?

  2. The rumors are about what the next set will contain. Remember: Prison was planned with a different expansion format than the original set - it's likely to be one or two characters, one or two pairs of rooms and/or an item or two, packaged as a blister pack.

    It will be (at the earliest) March of 2011. Chris has taken some time off of DT to work on other projects for Ludically, including Earth Reborn, which Z-Man games is distributing in North America (and I've heard some good things about this one, too).

    The existing expansions (Lands of Ice and Sylvan Creatures will not make it into English in their current form. This has been known since shortly after Prison was announced.

  3. Hrm. That is pretty disappointing. The Sylvan expansion is the one that looked the most intriguing to me.

    I haven't yet picked up Prison because having the characters as actual figures seemed like it pretty dramatically increased the cost of the game. Since I buy games for a school club to play out of my own pocket the jump in price makes it really challenging.

    Are the plans for the expansion blister packs to be sold in a fashion similar to the Heroscape expansions?

  4. Hrm. That is pretty disappointing. The Sylvan expansion is the one that looked the most intriguing to me.

    I haven't yet picked up Prison because having the characters as actual figures seemed like it pretty dramatically increased the cost of the game. Since I buy games for a school club to play out of my own pocket the jump in price makes it really challenging.

    Are the plans for the expansion blister packs to be sold in a fashion similar to the Heroscape expansions?

    All that being said, I am really looking forward to the Xbox version of the game.

  5. The price jump for Prison caught me off-guard, too. But I've found the characters and items are more tightly-balanced than the classic base set's.

    I've found that Solo Play has dramatically improved my skill level.

    Heroscape puts out four blisters at a time - last I heard, DT expansions will be released one blister at a time. Each blister will be (as I said) 1-2 characters, 1-2 items, and/or 1-2 room pairs.

    The eventual goal is smaller expansions more often. And the plan does include reprinting characters (and items and rooms) from Sylvan Creatures (and other sets). Chris quoted at one time "60% New Material."

    Once it's on XBox, look me up. I'm willing to play any time I'm online.

  6. Well good to hear you think the Prison set is tight. At some point I will have to upgrade my old base set (since presumably the couple expansions I already own will be compatible with Prison). Perhaps I will sell off my base set to help fund it.

    My big issue with the price jump is it makes it a tougher sell to get people into the game. I have been doing my best to drum up some local DT players with the eventual goal of having enough players to run some community-wide tournaments (rather than the school tournaments I have been running). A higher price point makes it rougher to get multiple copies to run tournaments.

    When it hits the Xbox though I will absolutely send you a message. I haven't played anyone experiences players so it would be thrilling to have someone destroy me and see some new and clever tactics.

  7. I have both Prison and the base set - they are compatible, so getting rid of the base set only deprives you of some characters - plus the XBox game uses the classic Base Set.

    And I agree - the higher price point DOES make it a harder sell. But, like the previous edition, it's an easier sell once you get someone to play it.

  8. Geoff H6:46 AM

    With the higher price point, I find that I'm still running tournaments with the base game. It's what people are familiar with. Many US players are reluctant to upgrade without a commitment to 3/4 player support from the publisher.

    IMHO, Prison is an excellent addition to DT and plays quite differently from the Base Game. And as Eric said, the solo mode is fantastic (although I don't play it as much as I would like).

    But keep your base set -- the games have very different strategies and tactical choices. The more I play DT, the more I am impressed with the depth of the system.

  9. I also use the Base set for demos and tournaments - many stores have the old base set in stock, still, and the point of a demo and a tourney is to help them sell their product.

  10. Anonymous8:15 AM

    So does these new blister packs include the 3/4 player stuff for Dungeon Twister or is that a dead issue?

  11. 3/4 Player is still up in the air. If Lucically sees demand for it, we may see 3/4 player support. If Ludically doesn't see that demand, then we won't see it.

    It's that simple.

    I'm not suggesting spamming them - that's ALWAYS a bad idea - but discussion on the various DT forums and mailing lists which exist can't hurt. I know Chris reads a number of the forums and mailing lists, even if he's not particularly active on them.

  12. Nordiskanc11:04 AM

    I also attended Origins this year and spoke with the Asmodee booth people and got the impression that the future was uncertain. I asked them (2 questions) about future expansions, 1. About the 3/4 player ultimate expansion that never materialized, you know the red/green pieces. They smiled and said we always get asked about the 3/4 player game at conventions. 2. Will they ever make the cardboard standups for the new pieces? They said new pieces will be in the plastic like prison.

  13. Nordiskanc, the future IS uncertain.

    Asmodee isn't publishing DT anymore, they're now just distributors so they couldn't do the Ultimate 3/4. And I can vouch for the flood of DT-related questions received at conventions about it.

    Ludically's plan is to stick with the minis for future sets. Again: Be active in the forums and mailing lists. Chris will see what fans want. There's been some good feedback on Boardgamegeek already, and I know he's seen it.

    Part of the issue is that North American fans are not the same as European fans - the 3/4 player expansions in Europe reportedly didn't sell as well as they did in the US.

    I'm in a holding pattern for more info - the League forum is the best source of info for me, currently, as Chris is busy with Earth Reborn and whatever else he may have up his sleeve.

  14. Nordiskanc12:58 PM

    It really does appear the future is uncertain, or rather a Catch-22. Seems alot of Americans won't commit to Prison until (if) 3/4 player stuff comes out and Ludically won't make the 3/4 player until Prison sells enough...
    At Origins this year myself and 3 others from around the US were going to play DT 4 player, seems someone was misinformed that some 3/4 stuff had come out.. Anyway when we got there and it was discovered that no new 3/4 player stuff had come out, the session fell apart. (People didn't want to play with just the base set, which is what I always get at home with my gaming group). One of the players was in disbelief that the Ultimate 3/4 player for '08 still hadn't come out yet. I just smiled and told them to ask the Asmodee people about it (even though I had spoken with them earlier as in my post)

    Guess after Earth Reborn come out we will see if the new people are going to support 4 player or just abandon it as they have done in the past.

  15. D. Rivett9:22 PM

    Just saw on BGN about this new character, looks interesting but it only appears in blue and orange, is there a red and green version out?

  16. D. Rivett:

    The Disciple is not a new character - she was one of the very first tournament goodies released, and is one of only three goodie characters available in English (the other two are the Ogre and the Beggar).

    At present, the miniature is only available in blue and yellow. Ordering it will get you a set of one of each.

  17. Anonymous8:19 AM

    OK, I was recommended DT:P by someone when I asked about good two player games for myself and my girlfriend. It arrives tomorrow. That being said, even having not played the game, I don't want to miss out on a chance to add a bonus figure to my game.

    How do I jump into this purchase from the US?

  18. You just have to join the league -- The membership dues are 10 Euros, the cost of the figures is 5 Euros, and the shipping for the figure is still being determined, but will be around 1.50 Euros to get it here from Europe. I'll then ship them within the US to League members.

    Send an email to me (gheintze) or Gamethyme if you are interested. You can contact us at the league website. Thanks,


  19. For the record, 16.5€ is $20.95 according to this morning.

  20. D. Rivett7:24 PM

    Question: This disciple figure are the rules for it included in the purchase?

    This new version of Dungeon Twister is all four colors in it since it seems to be alot more money than the old ones which I bought. I had to buy two boxes to get the blue and orange and the red and green was in another box for some strange reason. Or do I need to buy 2 boxes again?

  21. @D. Rivett
    I believe you are talking about the extra figures to buy for the older sets. DT:Prison only includes blue and yellow figures. There are no red and green figures available.

    I don't know if the rules are included or not, but they should be available on BGG or at

  22. D. Rivett8:30 AM

    I have two boxes of bascially the same game, just some numbers on the rooms are different in order to get all the pieces to play with 4 people. I like the game so much that I bought 3-D pieces of the characters in the four colors, those cost alot. I never bought anymore as all the stores I looked at only had more blue and orange and never could find the "other" box for with the other colors.
    Since this new version only has two colors again and you said they have no red and green I guess I am stuck again. No point in buying half a set.

  23. The lack of 3/4 player standups in Prison is a problem for many US players. I'm hoping that either the league or publishers will correct that soon -- and add the 3/4 standups that weren't released for the previous expansions.

    I should point out that there are purple tokens in Prison that can be used for a 3rd player.

    I also would suggest that you post on the forums at boardgamegeek and about wanting the 3/4 player standups for older sets and prison. Only by raising our voices will we be able to be heard. Being active in the community is the only way to make things happen...

  24. M. Smith6:57 AM

    Being vocal is something I tried years ago with the Ultimate 3/4 player expansion which was overdue years ago. We still are waiting for it. We want 4 player stuff!

  25. M. Smith,

    I would suggest that NOW is the best time to be vocal. Years ago, I heard a rumor that Asmodee was basing their English print runs on their European sales of that set. I don't know if it's true or not, but it'd make sense.

    Asmodee isn't publishing DT anymore. Luducally is. And they're trying to do simultaneous print runs (and release as close to simultaneously as possible). Chris isn't 100% sure where he's going next with it in terms of what characters/sets to publish - and he does pay attention to fans.

    There's a poll I put up here - and I already know he's watching it. I just want more than a dozen results. :)

  26. Anonymous9:16 AM

    What's up with the base of this bonus figure? Will it be like the base of the DT:P figures where you can slide around an item or is it like the old figures, solid? (And if it is like the old stuff, why? Isn't DT:P the new standard?)

  27. Unfortunately, the base of the new figure does not have the notch in it to hold an item. I'm not sure why it doesn't. I thought the base would be exactly like Prison...


  28. M. Smith9:04 PM

    We need all the red and green pieces from all the old expansions. P&D, F&W, FoD, and Mercs. When will they learn?!? We don't want overpriced miniatures, we want to play the game with 4 players. I took the poll on BGG about it, but I don't hold must support for it, we never saw the pieces from years ago, yes years! Instead they "reboot" a system that wasn't even finished or started for that matter.

  29. M. Smith,

    The miniatures aren't done by Ludically or Asmodee - they are done by the (fan-driven) International Dungeon Twister League (LIDT).

    In North America, we went to play with four. In Europe, the 3/4 Player expansions sold poorly when compared to the other sets (I don't have access to exact numbers, however).


  30. My other concern is that I'm not sure how well Prison is selling in the US. If that's the case, they will continue to only support the 2 player version that sells well in Europe.

    So in order to get the 3/4 expansions that we want, we need to show Ludically that we support the game by joining the league, participating in tournaments, buying Prison, writing session reports on BGG, etc... Any way we can raise the profile of Dungeon Twister in the US.

    We all just have to take the plunge and hope for the best.

  31. M. Smith2:02 PM

    Well who ever to whatever puts outs Dungeon Twister isn't going to get another dime from me until they put out some of the 3 and 4 player stuff from years ago. I'm not going to buy overpriced miniatures until then, I'm not joining any leagues until then, I'm not buying Prison until then. I fell for that years ago when they put out a single 3 and 4 player set and left us hanging.